In the past step we have and have referred to the following adjustments or readjustments. And I note that they are not datum changes.
NAD83(1986) or NAD83(86)
NAD83(1992) or NAD83(92)
NAD83(1994) or NAD83(94)
NAD83(2002) or NAD83(02)
Having a NSRS2007 would invalidate our state coordinate law which explicitly refer to NAD83. This would not be a pleasant job of having to legislatively make changes.
thanks
Benton Grissom PE,PLS
Nevada Dept of Transportation
Location Engineer
1263 S Stewart Street
Carson City, Nevada 89712
775-888-7250
bgrissom@dot.state.nv.us
39º 09' 22.86"
119º 45' 46.38"
1425m
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I think NAD-83 (NSRS) makes the most sense to me. I have become used to
computing
the 60 day plots and other things provided by the NGS to both derive new
station
solutions and to monitor existing stations.
The CORS system is strongest allowing it to move and stabilize as the earth
moves
and shifts. I have no problem with the changes since they will not impact my
survey points as long as I know the epoch that any particular station
coordinate was
derived.
I don't like the idea of calling is NAD-83(NSRS 2007) as that date will look
dated in 2010.
There are several such as Dave Doyle, who have educated many of us surveyors
to accept
the changes and to learn how to deal with them.
Most state statutes define the NAD-83 system, so I would suggest staying
with that in the name,
otherwise you will have to modify 40 or so states legislation to reflect the
new name. Confusing
at the very least.
In Summary, do not use a date in the name. The CORS is a full on boogie,
moving and a grooving system.
Deral Paulk, PLS OK
City of Lawton Land Surveyor
GIS Administrator
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In reference to the name for the new adjustment I offer the following comments,
actually copied from a post asking the same question on the POB web site.
I think NAD83 has to stay in the name. I like the year of the initial adjustment
too. Taking the year out causes problems for future readjustments (I am not
convinced this will be the last!), so I think that needs to be in there.
CORS have been NAD83(CORS96) Epoch 2002.0 for a while now.
Why not NAD83(NSRS) Epoch 2007.xxxx
OR
NAD83(NSRS07) epoch 2007.xxxx?
This would indicate clearly what you have (can't use the CORS96 any longer,
because more than CORS stations would be included) and also includes the date
that it refers to. It is still NAD83, so SPC laws won't need to be changed.
Shelby H. Griggs, PLS
OrbiTech, Inc.
PO Box 5305
Bend, OR 97708
Office: (541) 383-2715
Cell: (541) 350-8002
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The NAD83 name should remain with some parenthetical epoch or reference noted.
Legal requirements in most states have successfully been made to require NAD83.
J. Anthony Cavell, PLS Associate Director
LSU Center for GeoInformatics & Louisiana Spatial Reference Center
235 Engineering Research & Development Building
Baton Rouge, LA 70803
Phone: (225) LSU-4LSU E-mail: JACavell@LSU.edu
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Subject: Name
From: George Leigh
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:38:27 -0500
To: ngs.readjust@noaa.gov
Given that 2007 is our 200th Anniversary..... G
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If this is truly a readjustment of NAD 83 then my vote is for NAD83 (2007).
Bob L. Potter, P.S.M.
Survey Manager
AIM Engineering & Surveying, Inc.
5300 Lee Blvd.
Lehigh Acres, FL 33971
(800) 226-4569
(239) 332-4569 Office
(239) 872-2623 Mobile
(239) 332-4227 Fax
bpotter@aimengr.com
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How about NAD05 or NAD06 or whenever you finish?
Brian McCain, P.L.S.
esurvey1@bellsouth.net
615-415-8522
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Thank you so much for soliciting the opinions of the users of the readjustment.
I am excited about the new adjustment and look forward to having coordinates
on the HARN that more closely match the coordinates of the CORS network. Who
would have ever dreamed that differences on the order of 2-5 cm would be able
to be resolved as is now the case?
I noticed that you all were interested in opinions regarding the name of the
new adjustment. My preference is for NAD83(NSRS2007).
NAD83
First, as you all are aware, the NAD83 is such an integral part of the legal
architecture of coordinate use in the States that a name change from this would
be unnecessarily burdensome. Not only that, but as I understand it, the datum
has not changed anyway. Further, the way the coordinates will be expressed in
State Plane Projections will not be changed either. So, it really is the same
NAD83 we've been using for 20 years now.
NSRS
There does need to be a distinction between the inactive monuments and the active
monuments (CORS) in the network. Further, instead of having the FBN and the
CBN and the HARN, one single designation for all inactive monuments in the new
adjustment will make meta data reporting much simpler. This will also help to
keep the date "2007" from appearing to be an epoch.
2007
Once the adjustment is complete, it needs to be differentiated from future adjustments.
It would be nice if the next adjustment could be simply NAD83(NSRSXXXX), so
that naming conventions won't be a hassle in the future. If this could be accomplished
in future adjustments, the incorporation of the date would be essential.
I'm a land surveyor and obviously don't see all the aspects that could pop up
in a Nation-wide readjustment, but this is my take on it. Thanks again for requesting
input.
Shawn Billings
shawnbillings@cablelynx.com
RPLS 5688, Texas
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IMHO, it doesn’t make any difference what the “datum tag”
part of the name
is along as it is distinct from other datum tags. NAD83 (NSRS) or any
variation of NAD83 (whatever) will work just fine. However, because NGS
has been touting the NAD83 (NSRS) for a few years now I feel that this
would be the best at this point. Additional, I think it goes without
saying that the inclusion of epoch dates is imperative.
BTW, I also feel that articles/training should be provided discussing the
relationship between coordinate values that have different datum tags and
whether or not a modeling program can be used to produce highly accurate
results between them. This discussion would include: What is a datum? What
is a datum tag? What is an epoch date? How/can I intermix values with
different designations (i.e. can HTDP be used in all instances)? If HTDP
is used what is the expected relative accuracy when converting values with
different designations? to name a few topics.
Tom Taylor, PLS
California
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First of all, I am lost when you start talking about ITRF Epochs, and wonder
if my GPS processing software supports it.
In our CADD software, the TRAVERSE.INP file controls the coordinate base.
I show:
NAD83(1996) Maine East Zone 1801
NAD83(1996) Maine West Zone 1802
Or
NAD83(1996) ME2000 East Zone 1803
NAD83(1996) ME2000 Central Zone 1804
NAD83(1996) ME2000 West Zone 1805
When I find an older project that says it is NAD83,
I check coordinates and make the file read
NAD83(1986). We know the Datum, and now I have
Positively identified the adjustment.
I also state whether U.S. Survey Feet, or Meters
I show Vertical Datum NGVD29 or NAVD88
And I try to show which stations were held as control,
to be sure all control was held on lengthy jobs.
I figure that 75 years later, the next surveyor will be able
convert the project to the supported NGS reference.
Harold E. Nelson, Senior Geodesist
GPS Computations and Control
MDOT Property Office
16 State House Station
Augusta, ME 04333
Phone: 207-624-3517
Fax: 207-624-3401
Email: Harold.Nelson@maine.gov
05:30 a.m. to 16:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Mon-Thurs.
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Since it is not NAD1983 what difference or help does (2007) provide. Name it
NAD83-07.
What is more important, if a monument has NAD83-07 coordinates different than
NAD83(2002) how is the position going to transferred back in time, or how will
we reference the previous location?
Thank you,
Lawrence Paul Lopresti
326 Tenth Street
West Easton, PA 18042-5426
610-253-7552
Fax 610-253-12660
Email: lplopresti@enter.net
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My vote is for NAD 83 (2007)
This has caused many discussions in our state society and in other
association meetings in our area. If people are talking about
coordinate systems and I say that it is 83 91 or 83 97, people know what
I am talking about. I believe that it is very important that the date
of the adjustment is needed in the name of it. That way, just by the
name, people who are going to use this system know exactly what you are
talking about.
Thank you,
Emily K. Pierce, RLS
Marathon County
210 River Drive
Wausau WI 54403-5449
(715) 261-6026
Fax (715) 261-6033
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Please use NAD 83 (2007)
fl Diann Danielsen
LIO/Manager, Dane County Land Information Office
210 Martin Luther King Jr Blvd - Room 360, Madison Wisconsin 53703
(() phone (608) 266-4942 (() fax (608) 266-1242
(+) e-mail danielsen@co.dane.wi.us
www.co.dane.wi.us/lio accessdane.co.dane.wi.us
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I feel the naming convention should stay with the existing syntax as NAD 83
(2007). Why change something that isn't broken?
Gene Hafermann
608-266-0112
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Since this is a readjustment and not a datum redefinition, I think it best to
stay with the same fomart used for the previous readjustments: NAD 83 (2007).
This should minimize confusion as it clearly identifies both the datum and date
of readjustment. When the datum is redefined and data readjusted simultaneously,
as was the case for NAD 83 (1986), then a different naming convetion might be
considered.
Jerry Mahun
Surveying Instructor
Madison Area Technical College
Madison, WI
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